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	<title>Comments on: the israeli wall &#38; thoughts on peace</title>
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	<link>http://blog.ebrahim.org/2004/07/09/the-israeli-wall-thoughts-on-peace/</link>
	<description>Ali Ebrahim on web standards, software developement, technology, politics and law.</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 23:30:31 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Jason</title>
		<link>http://blog.ebrahim.org/2004/07/09/the-israeli-wall-thoughts-on-peace/#comment-54</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jul 2004 05:33:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.ebrahim.org/2004/07/09/the-israeli-wall-thoughts-on-peace/#comment-54</guid>
		<description>"Fifthly, since you raised the issue of Iraq (which in my mind is a distinct issue), I don't see a big difference between Saddam Hussein and Ariel Sharon. Both of them act outside the framework of international law. Both of them are not averse to ruthless murders of those that oppose them."

That is not true AT ALL. If Arik Sharon was "not averse to ruthless murders of those that oppose [him]" then we would not see people like Shimon Peres and Mitzna (left-wing Israeli politicians), who are opposed to Sharon and the right-wing Likud party. If Sharon was "not averse to ruthless murders of those that oppose [him]" then he would have had Ariel Eldad, a MK from the extreme right-wing party National Union who opposes his plan of leaving the Gaza Strip, taken out.

Well guess what??? He hasn't!

If Saddam Hussein was Prime Minister of Israel, all of those people would no longer be living.

Well guess what??? Those people are still alive and kicking, fighting Sharon and Likud within the government.

Why is that? Because Israel is Democratic, just like the United States, the UK, France, Germany, and the other civilized countries.

If you don't think that democracy is the solution to the world's problems, then what is? Ruthless dictators?

Jason Lustig
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Fifthly, since you raised the issue of Iraq (which in my mind is a distinct issue), I don&#8217;t see a big difference between Saddam Hussein and Ariel Sharon. Both of them act outside the framework of international law. Both of them are not averse to ruthless murders of those that oppose them.&#8221;</p>
<p>That is not true AT ALL. If Arik Sharon was &#8220;not averse to ruthless murders of those that oppose [him]&#8221; then we would not see people like Shimon Peres and Mitzna (left-wing Israeli politicians), who are opposed to Sharon and the right-wing Likud party. If Sharon was &#8220;not averse to ruthless murders of those that oppose [him]&#8221; then he would have had Ariel Eldad, a MK from the extreme right-wing party National Union who opposes his plan of leaving the Gaza Strip, taken out.</p>
<p>Well guess what??? He hasn&#8217;t!</p>
<p>If Saddam Hussein was Prime Minister of Israel, all of those people would no longer be living.</p>
<p>Well guess what??? Those people are still alive and kicking, fighting Sharon and Likud within the government.</p>
<p>Why is that? Because Israel is Democratic, just like the United States, the UK, France, Germany, and the other civilized countries.</p>
<p>If you don&#8217;t think that democracy is the solution to the world&#8217;s problems, then what is? Ruthless dictators?</p>
<p>Jason Lustig</p>
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		<title>By: SMD</title>
		<link>http://blog.ebrahim.org/2004/07/09/the-israeli-wall-thoughts-on-peace/#comment-53</link>
		<dc:creator>SMD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Jul 2004 05:14:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.ebrahim.org/2004/07/09/the-israeli-wall-thoughts-on-peace/#comment-53</guid>
		<description>Two points:

Bush isn't just Sharon's "pal". This is an integral part of his religious beliefs, as are the neo conservatives who share the White House with him.

You should also make a distinction between Zionist Israelis and Jewish Israelis; people like the Hasidic Settlers are the tools in the occupation - the IDF merely back them up. Yes, there are some innocent settlers but this is a small percentage.

Still, good post. Nice blog, too.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Two points:</p>
<p>Bush isn&#8217;t just Sharon&#8217;s &#8220;pal&#8221;. This is an integral part of his religious beliefs, as are the neo conservatives who share the White House with him.</p>
<p>You should also make a distinction between Zionist Israelis and Jewish Israelis; people like the Hasidic Settlers are the tools in the occupation - the IDF merely back them up. Yes, there are some innocent settlers but this is a small percentage.</p>
<p>Still, good post. Nice blog, too.</p>
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		<title>By: Ali Ebrahim</title>
		<link>http://blog.ebrahim.org/2004/07/09/the-israeli-wall-thoughts-on-peace/#comment-52</link>
		<dc:creator>Ali Ebrahim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jul 2004 07:45:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.ebrahim.org/2004/07/09/the-israeli-wall-thoughts-on-peace/#comment-52</guid>
		<description>First off, I don't think there is anything hilarious about the situation. Secondly, yes, I do consider organisations such as Hamas and Al-Aqsa inhumane, and conduct terrorist operations that cannot be justified by Islam (or by any other mainstream religion). There is no question in my mind that what they're doing is wrong.

Thirdly, I don't think that democracy is the solution to the world's problems. It's a fine form of government, and works well in many places. However, I take issue with the premise that it's the &lt;em&gt;only&lt;/em&gt; form of government thats good, and that it should be forcibly exported anywhere and everywhere.

Fourthly, if the Israelis see it fit to act outside the framework of international law, then it should come as no surprise to them that their adversaries choose to ignore it as well. The construction of this wall is simply proof (as if we needed more) that the Israeli government doesn't care about international law. Governments that flaunt international law ought to be held accountable to the world community. If Israel thinks the United Nations is worthless, which it claims, then it should cease seeking resolutions condemning actions by the Palestinians. Either its a legitimate body, or its not. It can't be legitimate when condemning Arafat but illegitimate when ruling against Israel. Either its neither or its both. The Israelis can't have it both ways.

Fifthly, since you raised the issue of Iraq (which in my mind is a distinct issue), I don't see a big difference between Saddam Hussein and Ariel Sharon. Both of them act outside the framework of international law. Both of them are not averse to ruthless murders of those that oppose them. Both of them sought to marginalise communities of which they were not a part. What's the difference between them? Bush is Sharon's pal, and Saddam tried to kill Bush's daddy.

Sixthly, I want to make a distinction between Ariel Sharon and Israel. The Israelis as a people are certainly not scum, and I believe they have the right to a state of their own. I don't think most of them are hostile to Palestinians, and I don't think that most Palestinians are hostile to Israelis. I think more than anything they want to get along. It's the leadership structures that are problematic, and those few people from each side who give everybody a bad name. Ariel Sharon is one of those people. I think he's scum.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First off, I don&#8217;t think there is anything hilarious about the situation. Secondly, yes, I do consider organisations such as Hamas and Al-Aqsa inhumane, and conduct terrorist operations that cannot be justified by Islam (or by any other mainstream religion). There is no question in my mind that what they&#8217;re doing is wrong.</p>
<p>Thirdly, I don&#8217;t think that democracy is the solution to the world&#8217;s problems. It&#8217;s a fine form of government, and works well in many places. However, I take issue with the premise that it&#8217;s the <em>only</em> form of government thats good, and that it should be forcibly exported anywhere and everywhere.</p>
<p>Fourthly, if the Israelis see it fit to act outside the framework of international law, then it should come as no surprise to them that their adversaries choose to ignore it as well. The construction of this wall is simply proof (as if we needed more) that the Israeli government doesn&#8217;t care about international law. Governments that flaunt international law ought to be held accountable to the world community. If Israel thinks the United Nations is worthless, which it claims, then it should cease seeking resolutions condemning actions by the Palestinians. Either its a legitimate body, or its not. It can&#8217;t be legitimate when condemning Arafat but illegitimate when ruling against Israel. Either its neither or its both. The Israelis can&#8217;t have it both ways.</p>
<p>Fifthly, since you raised the issue of Iraq (which in my mind is a distinct issue), I don&#8217;t see a big difference between Saddam Hussein and Ariel Sharon. Both of them act outside the framework of international law. Both of them are not averse to ruthless murders of those that oppose them. Both of them sought to marginalise communities of which they were not a part. What&#8217;s the difference between them? Bush is Sharon&#8217;s pal, and Saddam tried to kill Bush&#8217;s daddy.</p>
<p>Sixthly, I want to make a distinction between Ariel Sharon and Israel. The Israelis as a people are certainly not scum, and I believe they have the right to a state of their own. I don&#8217;t think most of them are hostile to Palestinians, and I don&#8217;t think that most Palestinians are hostile to Israelis. I think more than anything they want to get along. It&#8217;s the leadership structures that are problematic, and those few people from each side who give everybody a bad name. Ariel Sharon is one of those people. I think he&#8217;s scum.</p>
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		<title>By: IZ</title>
		<link>http://blog.ebrahim.org/2004/07/09/the-israeli-wall-thoughts-on-peace/#comment-51</link>
		<dc:creator>IZ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jul 2004 06:12:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.ebrahim.org/2004/07/09/the-israeli-wall-thoughts-on-peace/#comment-51</guid>
		<description>You people are hillarious...if you think that what Israel is doing is inhumane then Im sure youll agree that what groups like Hamas and Al-Aqsa do are also in that category. The security wall is being built because of Palestinian terrorism (and the key word is terrorism not freedom fighters as some people would say). Israel is not innocent but she does what is neccessary to protect her citizens like any other DEMOCRATIC country would. And in response to the other post there is a BIG difference between Iraq and Israel. Iraq was ruled by a dictator who openly torchered all who opposed him. Israel brought Arafat back to the West Bank and Gaza and gave him power and he chose to use it to destroy Israel rather then help his people. The Palestinians are not Israel's problem they are the Arab world's problem and thats why they are in the situation they are in now.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You people are hillarious&#8230;if you think that what Israel is doing is inhumane then Im sure youll agree that what groups like Hamas and Al-Aqsa do are also in that category. The security wall is being built because of Palestinian terrorism (and the key word is terrorism not freedom fighters as some people would say). Israel is not innocent but she does what is neccessary to protect her citizens like any other DEMOCRATIC country would. And in response to the other post there is a BIG difference between Iraq and Israel. Iraq was ruled by a dictator who openly torchered all who opposed him. Israel brought Arafat back to the West Bank and Gaza and gave him power and he chose to use it to destroy Israel rather then help his people. The Palestinians are not Israel&#8217;s problem they are the Arab world&#8217;s problem and thats why they are in the situation they are in now.</p>
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		<title>By: khamis</title>
		<link>http://blog.ebrahim.org/2004/07/09/the-israeli-wall-thoughts-on-peace/#comment-50</link>
		<dc:creator>khamis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jul 2004 11:05:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.ebrahim.org/2004/07/09/the-israeli-wall-thoughts-on-peace/#comment-50</guid>
		<description>great post. i agree that israel should not be allowed to do what ever it wants even when the world as a whole says its wrong. we liberated iraq right? but we allow israel to keep performing inhuman and irrational deeds.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>great post. i agree that israel should not be allowed to do what ever it wants even when the world as a whole says its wrong. we liberated iraq right? but we allow israel to keep performing inhuman and irrational deeds.</p>
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